The following are translations of the portions of secretly recorded converstions between Joran van der Sloot and Patrick van der Eem, which were played on the Peter de Vries program of 2/3/08.
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(from 1/10/08 car ride conversation)
P: What do you have in that bag?
J: A present for you, man. Something small, just something small.
P: Ah. Tasty! (Looks at cut on Joran's face) Doesn't look that bad.
J: Yeah. Everybody says it doesn't look too bad. But I'll show you a photo of when it was completely open. You could see my teeth through my lips. It really looked dirty.
P: This one doesn't beep, man (referring to beep to fasten your safety belt). I have a little fuse problem
J: Looks great Patrick (referring to the car). It is coooooool.
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Voiceover: Immediately after his release Joran has been involved in a fight. During a fight over a gambling debt in the Holiday Inn, the hotel where Natalee once stayed, someone has cut his lip open.
J: So, I can now go to the fucking judge. When I'm there I can say, "Hey, look at this" (points at his lip). I was fucking hit on my head with a fucking bottle due to all of this. I fell with my fucking face into glass. What the fuck do you want? Just give me sufficient money to allow me to buy a little house in Spain.
P: So that you can live there relaxed.
J: But hey, that has already been submitted, for that compensation claim. It had to be done within a month.
P: Within a month?
J: Yeah. My dad already has already arranged that. Anyway, there are plenty of lawyers that are prepared to help my dad with this.
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P: So now the judge has made that decision, right?
J: No, now he has "seponeert" the case.
P: And what does that mean?
J: That I'm no longer a suspect.
P: So, you're no longer a suspect. But hey, that prosecutor over there wasn't too amused, was he?
J: But hey, the prosecutor knows that if he tries to turn this into a trial, he'll lose it. That�s 100% certain, everybody knows that. So, if he would bring the case to court, then it's over. Then he can never... even if they find that girl dead, with my sperm in her...
P: Then they cannot do anything anymore?
J: Not a thing, no. They just can't do a thing.
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J: They are crazy, Patrick. But I was only laughing. I haven't said a thing. Not one thing! I arrived there, you know... and okay, the judge said, "You don't have to answer." I didn't even have to tell them that I would use my right to remain silent. I just looked that officer straight in the face, and just sat there the entire time. Not a single word came out of my mouth. Even that judge, Patrick. That fucking judge. I'm sitting there before him that first time. I didn't say a thing. you know. And the second time, the session's over, and the judge says, "Do you have anything to say?" I tell him, "I'd really like to go home." That was good. If I hadn't gotten that, I'd have gotten 30 days. And the judge says, "Yeah, but you're not telling the truth." And I say, "I'm not telling the truth? I have not even given a statement." Then he told me, "I think you know more." That's what the judge said to me. "This isn't going well." So the only thing I said was, "Yeah, sorry man, I think it's awful that you as a judge are speculating!" I sat down again and my lawyer said, "It's over." Then my lawyer came and said, "I've thought about it, and it's so good that you said that!"
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J: My parents want to go and talk on the Pauw and Witteman show the evening before they leave. .
P: What for?
J: To talk about all the fucking mistakes of the prosecutor. And my father thinks it's really going to come in handy for the damages claim. I'm going to get a big fat compensation check, according to my father.
P: Yeah, but that's only right.
J: A really big fat one he says. For the emotional damages.
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J: Oh Patrick, what I really disliked most were those fucking officers that came to arrest me here in the Netherlands. They were so fucking smart. Alex opened the door you know, and the cops entered the house. "You are going to be arrested." I was just laughing. I said: "You must be joking, aren't you?" "No, you will be extradited to Aruba." I said, "I don't believe you." "Yes, it's really true. Pack your suitcase." I said, "Suitcase?" I just grabbed a bag and threw two shirts and two pants in it. I said "I'm not going anywhere". There was also a woman amongst them. And I was stoned, Patrick. I was stoned. That was the only good thing, since I slept like a baby that night.
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(Talking about the Kalpoes)
P: But they can't say anything, Joran? Even if they want to?
J: But I know these guys Patrick. Look. They are really... (coughs).... they owned a fat Honda Civic. When I met them they never went out. Never going out in the evening. Nothing. Then we asked them, with that cool car you can get any girl you want. And then... I didn't even know them that long... and in that time we were going out almost every weekend, and every other week I would get a girl. Every three weeks. And them... in all those weeks... Zero, Patrick! Zero. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
P: Will they ever find her, do you think?
J: No.
P: No?
J: I'm done with it. The only thing I want now is my big fat compensation check. But before I have it, it'll be 10 years.
P: But where the fuck is she, Joran?
J: Never to be found. Where exactly, I don't even know myself.
P: How can that be, that you don't even know then?
J: Well...
P: A higher power?
J: Higher powers. Powers. No, I'm done with it, Patrick.
P: It's fine.
J: It's probably going to come out better than I'd hoped.
P: Why's that?
J: Now, I mean even now I'll also receive a fat compensation check.
P: That's arranged in a smart manner then.
J: Without this arrest I actually didn't count on it, no.
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(Talking about throwing wine at DeVries)
J: In principle, when I look back, it didn't look that bad at all when I saw it again. The show had just ended. I look at him and I gave those Pauw and Witteman a hand. I see him looking my way, and I pick up that glass of wine, and I just throw it calmly in his face. And he goes, "Oh, my eyes, it stings!". And I was so cool, and then you see me going calmly, like "Yeah, I thought you deserved it, you know." That's how it looked. It didn't look at all aggressive like, "You idiot..." It was more like, "Who the fuck do you think you are?" But it wasn't worth the 5000 euros.
P: But that's what they did pay?
J: Yes, of course. Yeah. I haven't received it yet, but I will get it.
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(from 1/13/08 car ride conversation)
J: If people would only know how well I'm positioned in this legal case, that�s really not normal.. Okay. I actually knew that girl for two days. Not even that. I'd only met her that same day. And the time that I was with her was maybe 3.5 hours. That's the whole time I spent with her, you know. In total. I can prove that half an hour after I left her at the beach, I already was home. Even earlier than that.
P: Who did bring you home, then?
J: That brother of Deepak.
P: Yeah. But he says that isn't true. Why would he say that, Joran?
J: Yes, I know why he is saying that. I know why he says that.
P: So, why does he say that?
J: Look, that asshole, if he says that now then he'll be caught.
P: Why?
J: Yeah, in that case he will be re-arrested of course. Why the fuck would you lie that you didn't pick him up?
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P: What happened to her? What the fuck happened to her? Joran listen, I'm from Aruba, I know the beach.
J: I'm telling you honestly, I know what happened to that girl.
P: What happened then, Joran? Morta, she's dead isn't she?
J: Of course.
P: Did she die, or what?
J: But do you think... come on, I would never kill a girl.
P: No, I think so. Joran, you know, shit...
J: I just lucked out, that's all. That's what it was.
P: What do you mean?
J: Well, that is... just... something happened there.
P: Of course something happened there. She's no longer around, is she.
J: Yeah, and... the ocean's big, isn't it?
P: Of course the sea is big, man.
J: I just think that I'm really lucky that she's never been found, because if they find that girl, I'd be in deep shit.
P: Why?
J: Well, you know. If they have a body, then they can try to make a case. Then they still don't have anything, but then I'll be taken in again...
P: I don't know. If there is any direct proof pointing to you, then maybe. But that decomposes, man.
J: But that's why I think I can never be fucked for this anymore.
P: I know for sure, they can't. They'll not even try, man.
J: Patrick, I'll tell you one thing... I've never discussed it with anyone.
P: No.
J: It isn't easy, either, not even now.
P: I know, Joran. But there are some things you have to get off your chest, sometimes.
J: Yeah, it's just... she is never going to be found. No.
P: Because they dumped her in the sea?
J: Yeah.
P: Yes? Alone?
J: Yeah.
P: Did you swim out or something?
J: No.
P: How then? That's weird. It's impossible, Joran.
J: Look, I know people in Aruba. At that age, I used to go around, with people... people who can help me. But I'd still rather not name those people, because they've never, in all this time...
P: Never done anything wrong?
J: ... they've always been good to me, and I've always been good to them. So yes, I know who it is, but I'm not going to tell you who it is� but it isn't my parents or anything, but someone who's a really good friend of mine,
P: With a boat.
J: Yes.
P: Then, that's it. If you took her out on a boat, for more than two miles, she'll never come back, you know.
J: Look, this friend of mine is pretty smart, and also a bit older...
P: But why would he want to do that for you?
J: Yeah, we are, since...
P: Friends since you were young. If you would call me, I would help you also, but you really have to think about that.
J: Yeah, this person, this person is just... His name, I'll take his name to the grave with me. Because I just know I can't do that to him. That's my obligation, because of what he did for me.
P: Of course.
J: He has a boat and that boat lies there. So we're there on the beach, suddenly she wasn't moving any more.
P: Shit, man!
J: So I went and called the guy, not with my mobile, I walked over to the pay phone. I called him, and I told him, "Well... this is what happened. Please come, come, come help me. Please don't call the police." He says, "No, I won't call the police, I'm coming to you now." And then he arrived.
J: Everything was arranged immediately?
P: No, not that. He said: "Oh shit." But she did not look normal, you know. Nothing the matter. He said. "This is not possible. You have to go home." I say, "No, I can't ask you to take responsibility for this." He said, "You're going home. I'll arrange the rest." I went home then.
P: Shit, man, this dude has a heart of gold.
J: I know that.
P: I help you make money, you have to give him money.
J: If I ever can ever do anything for him... I would give my life for him.
P: You don't have to do that. You can help him financially. I'm going to take care of the fact, that you can help him financially.
J: Yes, he's real good. .
P: Unbelievable, man. Yeah, I always told you... I knew it, you know. I...
J: It feels good, I have never told anybody. And this happens to be a rich American girl...
P: Fucking family of friends of Bush (unintelligible)
J: That makes no difference, I'm telling you the truth, I did not know all that. She did tell me, "I come from a rich family," you know, like that...
P: Yes, but of course you didn't know that, Joran. Of course you didn't know. Of course you didn't know. Nobody knows that such a thing will happen, do they? Nobody knows that such a thing will happen. Relax, Joran, you've got it off your chest. It'll be all right, man. And I'm putting it away. For me it's finished, the book is closed. You know, the book is just closed. We won't talk about it any more. I... yeah, that's all right, man. Yeah, huh? I'm really glad about that, I'm really glad about that for you.
J: I'm glad about it too. I'm being honest with you, Patrick. The two people I most trust here, of everybody, are that person and you.
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(from 1/15/08 car ride conversation)
P: How do you know she was dead, Joran?
J: I just know it.
P: How did you see that? Did you check her pulse, or something? Did it happen at once, then?
J: I just touched her. But there was nothing any more. It was done.
P: Did you try to resuscitate her?
J: I tried everything. I lifted her up.
P: You know, I don't understand one thing. Okay, she's there dead, yes? Your friend, yes...
J: Patrick, we had a group of boys on Aruba, we had a lot of contact, we have known each other since we were little. And those boys, to this day, they still call me every now and then, but they don't have much money.
P: Aren't you afraid that guy is going to talk at some point?
J: Of course, of course I'm afraid of that. But I have something on that guy, Patrick. I got something on him too. And he knows it very well.
P: Why did he do it this way? Does he have his own boat?
J: Yes, of course.
P: What's the name of the fucking boat?
J: I can't justify it, not to him, you will not hear anything coming from my mouth. In any case, he does not live on Aruba anymore.
P: Does he live in the Netherlands?
J: Yes.
P: But what about your father? When you came home? He noticed nothing different about you?
J: My father was asleep. It was 3:00 am or 4:00 am. It happened around 2:00 am. I was home around 3:00 am, 3:30 am. And at 3:30 am I went directly to the computer. I was only with the girl for about 2.5 hours. I did not meet her during daytime, we did things together. You can't kill someone in 2.5 hours and do something with it. Everyone knows this, it's not possible. You have to be a professional. I have lived on Aruba for 18 years, you know this...
P: Of course you know people. What you asked of this person...
J: I did not ask!
P: You did not ask. He offered?
J: He offered. And he saw me there, and he knew I was was going to go to America.
P: He wanted to save you.
J: He thought... and he could not have known how it was going to go. Later on in Holland, I did talk to him about it, I have sat with him some evenings.
P: How old is he? About as old as you?
J: No, 25. You know what's the most bizarre?
P: But they never arrested him
J: This is so bizarre. Throughout everything, you know. But you know, I played a good game in the beginning. Because in the beginning, I thought, I will tell them what they want. Because if there's no evidence against me, then... they can't screw me, in the end they have nothing, But they never questioned him. They did everything, but this boy... I have had so much luck, unbelievable.
P: How far do you think he took her? This guy must have done a really good job. This guy really knew what he was doing. But how far? Does he go boating often? Does he know a lot about boats? What does he know about the ocean?
J: He has his own boat license.
P: Yes, a license, the boy really knows what's he doing. Did he weigh her down, to make her sink?
J: No, I don't think so.
P: You don't even know that?
J: No.
P: Didn't he ever tell you how he did it?
J: Of course he did
P: How did he do it then?
J: He just went farther out in the sea, then he just dumped her.
P: He just threw her overboard? Just like that? You've really been very lucky, you know? No shit, then you've really been lucky.
J: That's what I say, I have been really lucky.
P: Really lucky, that he has been so stupid to do this, you know? Then you have a giant angel hanging over your head.
J: I was even able to sleep that night, I just went home and went to bed.
P: What is his name?
J: Daury.
P: Daury who?
J: (beeped out)
P: A Dutch boy.
J: No... well, yes. Half Dutch, half Aruban.
P: Half Aruban. Dutch mother, or something like that.
J: Yes, Dutch mother, Aruban father.
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(Talking about when he was in jail the first time)
J: So, I say: "Dad, you know, I also need stuff in here. I feel very unhappy here. I need a telephone." And then he said: "Hey, I can't do that." And then I said: "I really need it here, otherwise I'll run into trouble in here and people could beat me up. If I can arrange this, I'll be with the boy who makes deals for everybody. I'll be with him, since nobody can get a phone in there." And then he actually did it.
P: Then you had direct contact.
J: Yes, of course. And you know what, I had so few call minutes. My father is so stupid in these cases. He buys a phone and then he doesn't put a fucking balance on it. So, there was only a value of 5 guilders, or no, 10 guilders were on it.
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(from 1/16/08 car ride conversation)
J: So yes, those bitches just ask us, "Will you go out with us tonight? Will you go to Carlos 'n Charlie's, the bar, tonight?" And I said, "Yeah, that's fine." They'd already been drinking the entire time. And those girls were also taking cocaine. Because I know Boeti on Aruba, they went to him and got it. That's possible, I know that. And so then I said, "No, I have to go to school the next day. And the girl said, "Please." I know she wants to fuck, I just know it.
S: Which girl?
J: A friend of that Natalee. Not even Natalee herself, you know. I then called Deepak and Satish, they have the car you know, and I said to those girls, "Okay, I'll see you there."
So we go to Carlos 'n Charlie's, I get there and see this big group of hot bitches. And I see this good looking chick, and I start talking to her. I did not even fall for Natalee, Patrick. So I talk to her, and she said to me. "No, no, you know what? That girl has 'shotgun' on you." I asked her, "A shotgun on me?" She said, "Yes, go and dance with her."
So I walk over to the bar. They were already talking about me. The girl said. "Come and dance with me, come and dance." And I told her, "No, I'm not going to dance on top of that stage. Come down, we'll talk". I thought, I'll go and drink with Deepak and Satish. So I got a drink at the bar. And she just came down, from on top of the bar, She came up to me.
P: Who?
J: Natalee. "Come take a jelly shot off me." So the whore jumped on the bar, and wanted me to take a jelly shot out of her navel. So I did. So I did.
Then she says, "So now you have to buy me a drink." So I say, "What do you want?" She says, "What's good?" I say, "A shot of Bicardi 151." She says, "Okay, that's fine." So she takes a shot of Bicardi 151. So she takes it, and she took it at one time, whoop bam. 151 proof , 151 proof that is, 75% alcohol. Then she asked for a chaser. I had a yard in my hand, a long drink. She took that from me, and she drank some of that. I see also, she's drunk, Patrick, really drunk. But I thought, I'll just take the girl for a little while and fuck her.
Then I said, "What do you want to do? Do you want to go to your hotel?" I thought, I'll just take her to the hotel, that's best. She said. "No, no, I don't want to go to my own hotel." I said. "Okay, what do you want to do?" She said, "I want to see the sharks." I'm not bullshitting you, Patrick...
P: No, no, Joran, I've told you before. You already told me before, you know.
J: Some people are strange. She said, "I want to see the sharks". So I said to the guys, "I want to go somewhere alone with her, but she doesn't want to go to her hotel." I also kind of want to do what she wants, that's how it is you know. I said, "Just drop us off at the beach, then I'll fuck her and take her to the hotel after." So they dropped me off at the beach.
P: Where, by those things...?
J: By the corner, by the Marriott, between the Marriott and the Fisherman's Hut, there is a road. I get out and walk with her on the beach. I'm kissing her and stuff, but she doesn't look so hot, you know. She was looking kind of pale too. But she wanted it. She really wanted it. And she has her hand down my pants and so on, and all of a sudden. Patrick... (makes repeated convulsing motion with shoulders) Like a movie, all those things she did. .
P: Shaking?
J: Yeah, a lot. So I was like, shit, what is all this?
P: So what did you do then?
J: Yeah, so I stay with her. And there was nobody there, Patrick.
P: Of course there's no one, it's night time, Joran.
J: So I;m talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she says nothing, she says nothing, she says nothing. So I take her...
P: How long was she shaking like that for? Do you know what that is?
J: I don't know, Patrick.
P; An epileptic attack or something. dude.
J: I don't know.
P: She was shaking, and foam came out of her mouth?
J: No, no foam out of her mouth. Not that I saw.
P: And then, I'm panicking, you know? I just thought, fuck, no one even knows I left my house. I just left the house like that. So I'm thinking, what do I do?
Look, there are not a lot of people I trust, but this is a boy, I also have something on him. I can't say he owes me. That's too much. But I told him, I have a problem. And I know if he would have told me, "I can't help you, you have to take care of this yourself," then he also would not have talked. Maybe yes, but I don't know. But I also know what this person is like. I talked with him, and I told him I have seriously ...something...seriously something has happened, something bad.
P: Where did you talk with him?
J: I talked with him on the pay phone there.
P: From where?
J: The Marriott hotel.
P: And where is that, in the lobby?
J: No, just outside by the pool. I sit there all the time, I go there all the time.
P: And then you just left her lying there?
J: No listen, then I have.... you have these "dwarfy" things there... what do you call those...
P: Huts? Boats?
J: Yes but you have these plants there...
P: Those mangrove kind of things?
J: Yes, that is what I mean, those mangrove things. So I just got her and put her over there by those mangrove things. And I told him, "I am sitting here, you have to come here."
And he lives alone, he does not like this shit, he fucks them but he lives alone always, that is the way it is supposed to be, he says.
P: Yes, yes, yes.
J: So he came to there. And he says, "Joran, what have you done? But she looks so sweet, you know?"
P: And she's just lying still?
J: Still, still, she's not doing anything. He says, "What happened?" And I said, "I don't know either, man, I don't know either. I think she had too much to drink."
P: But did you not try to resuscitate her?
J: Of course, I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her, I was shaking her, I was shaking the bitch. I was like, "What's wrong with you, man?" I almost wanted to cry. Why does this shit have to happen to me?
P: Of course, of course.
J: Why does this shit have to happen to me? I said to him, "This isn't possible." And then...
P: That's when he was there too.
J: Yeah.
P: What time was this?
J: 2:30, 2:00. .
P: Unbelievable.
J: And he told me, this is a big problem. And he has his own boat on Aruba you know. He has that, he works at one of those... he works as a particular for one of those people, with those, what do you call it, those banana boats, those tubes...
P: Those fun things, where you can sit on a banana all together?
J: Yes, he has his own boat, but he works for one of those people. That is sort of his cover work.
P: That is good, you have to do something, earn some money. He is doing great then, he is not dumb.
J: No, he isn't dumb. He was sitting there and he said, "Joran, you know I would do a lot for you, but this is going to be a huge problem." He said, "No matter what, no matter what, you are going to get blamed for this."
And I said. "Yes, I also don't know... I don't know what I have to do, I cannot go to the police, I cannot solve this." His boat was sitting there by the pier, and I knew that too, you know. And he told me, "Then help me for a while." So we took her to the boat...
P: Lifted her up.
J: Yes, just the two of us quickly.
P: And nobody saw you then either?
J: Nobody.
P: Yes, but it is near the Marriott, those boats there?
J: Yes, but there is nobody. Nobody pays attention. You are walking there in the dark. Even if you walk there with someone, they think you are playing.
P: Probably think someone is drunk.
J: They do not pay attention at all.
And then he said to me, what did he say to me... when we were there he said to me, "You do have to go to school tomorrow and stuff. Because, if there is a missing girl then..."
P: He's smart, Joran.
J: I knew these things too. I said, "You're so right. I just have to do normal things. And I'm going to the casino to make sure I'm on camera and stuff." And he said, "Okay, that's fine", so I went home.
P: How did you get home, then?
J: I just walked, what do you think? He had to...
P: How long a walk is that then?
J: 15 minutes or so. And the shoe thing is all bullshit, Patrick.
P: Does he have your shoes?
J: No, those shoes, I have thrown them away, I have thrown them away myself, on the way to there.. on the way to home.
P: You just took them off?
J: No, on the way there, you have these holes...
P: Drains or something.
J: Yes.
P: Okay, so you walk home and he goes out right then?
J: He goes out right then. From what he told me... from what he told me, I don't think he even went out 2 kilometers. He told me he just took the boat, went far, threw her out, and came back. Put the boat back, and then came to visit me at home, and we talked for some time.
P: That night?
J: Yes, he came and he told me, you know, "All is arranged, she's going to be missing, they're going to search. but they will not know a thing , they will not know a thing." He said, "Maybe they will come to you." Then I said, "You know we have to talk this through." Of course we both were a little nervous.
P: Yes.
J: It isn't something small you know, we both had something like... we also had done things together before, therefore I knew when I, when I had to call someone, I had to call him.
P: Yes.
J: And that he would do this for me, but...
P: Yes.
J: But at that moment, you know, it had to be, it had to be good, if the police would come for me for the disappearance of the girl, because they had seen me leaving with the girl at Carlos 'n Charlie's. These boys they know, okay they have just dropped me off, they don't know anything further.
P: That Deepak and Satish?
J: Dumb boys, Patrick, they are not even worth it.
P: They dropped you off.
J: Yes, imagine how slick I had to be to persuade him... to persuade them to say they had dropped me off at my hotel. That truly messed things up, that messed things up.
P: But of course.
J: So I told him, "But if the police come, Deepak and Satish have dropped me off at the beach there, so I will have to talk with them also." Then they/she said, "Yes, that is true."
P: So you never told these two anything?
J: Never, never, never. Looking back I did not think that this shit would be so much...
P: No indeed, you had some bad luck with that, that it got such a fucking huge media hype.
J: But now I can abuse that too. (laughs) You don't have a smoke?
P: Yes, I have a smoke.
P: Hey, you drove off last night, but you had no pot anymore. Or did you?
J: No, but I was stoned, so no problem.
P: Okay, so that was that, or wasn't it?
J: Patrick boy, I only spent two hours with her, Patrick!
P: But you were fingering her, and then bam, it was finished?
J: I was fingering her, and talking, just talking with her, and I wanted her to suck my dick, I just wanted to say that, and then all at once, finished.
P: What was she doing, shaking?
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J: And these police officers you know, during these investigations they give you so much information about what they know. They want to throw it all on the table, but they know shit, ok, if that is how you say it is, then it is like that.
Oh, and when I was leaving there, you know, I even sms'd my girlfriends, "Hey darling see you tomorrow" Patrick, I did not have a bad feeling about it at all, I did not lose one night of sleep over it. I thought, it goes on, I have to go on. It has to look good, then they cannot do anything to me, and that is how it went also.
P: Joran, it is finished, okay. But Daury, do you even speak with him?
J: Yes, I speak with him at times.
P: Often?
J: No.
P: How do you talk with him, by phone?
J: No, by internet.
P: But Joran, about this...
J: No, no no, about this we only talk when we are together.
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P: How were you so sure she was dead, Joran? You can't... you know, people can also go into a coma.
J: Yeah... I wasn't sure about that, but it really scared me to death.
P: No, but I understand that. I definitely understand that, that you were scared. Did you really prod her and stuff?
J: No, but it didn't look good.
P: How didn't it look good, then?
J: Just, you know, she'd been shaking and stuff.
P: What, really shaking?
J: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, pretty much.
P: You know, I wasn't there. I'm asking you, how are you so fucking sure she was dead, man?
J: I wasn't fucking sure. But from the time it happened to the time he came, she wasn't doing anything any more.
P: Did this Daury check if she was dead? Did he look too?
J: He looked and he said, "Yeah, she's not alive any more. Dead."
P: How did he do that?
J: We were just standing over her and looked. It wasn't good.
P: But she could also have been in a coma.
J: Yeah.
P: That's possible too, huh?
J: That's possible.
P: So, why did you say that about those boys?
J: Say what?
P: That they picked you up. What was your thinking behind that?
J: Yeah. After the second week, I've just kept my mouth shut and didn't tell the police anything anymore.
P: Yeah. But now you say that they picked you up, don't you? Not against me, but against them.
J: That's just what the case is like now. I just kept my mouth shut. I haven't made any further statements. At a certain moment I decided, it's now in my best interest to really say nothing anymore.
P: That I can understand. But why did you say at that moment, they've picked me up?. What did you try to achieve with that? You knew... I mean I wonder why you say a thing like that. You only complicate things for yourself, man. Since theywill say, "It isn�t true."
J: Yeah , okay. But that's irrelevant.
P: Why is that irrelevant? They are together and you are on your own.
J: Yeah. What else should I have said? Nothing.... maybe better. The most important, is just distracting information. You know what, if.. now that I think about what you'd like to see answered...
P: What answer do I look for?
J: About learning from the process...
P: Yeah, that's really weird, you know.
J: But what I really think is the most important from all of that, is that what I would advise everybody is to just not talk at all.
P: No, that I understand. But that you walked to the hotel, that's what really drove them crazy. And that while you had a cell phone in your pocket!
J: Yeah. That's dirty isn't it.
P: That was a reeeeeealy dirty one. That's what saved you in the end.
J: Yeah. That's what saved me. Since they come with the phone conversation to them. I think that's why I did it! That this was my motivation. They came back and said you only have your phone conversation with Deepak, so then I said: "Yeah, he picked me up." That's how it went. And then they told me: "Hey, Deepak was at home at his computer." Then I said, "Ok, in that case it was his little brother Satish."
P: (Laughs)
J: That's how it went.
P: (Laughs) They are really stupid jerks, all of them.
J: Really stupid jerks.
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